C18 Keel Raising - Pros/Cons?

Generally Sailing Talk
John h
Old Fart
Posts: 132
Joined: Sun May 22, 2011 6:44 pm
Location: Canberra region

Re: C18 Keel Raising - Pros/Cons?

Postby John h » Thu Jun 09, 2011 8:06 pm

Thanks for that
Lil Annie C18 #438

Ivana

Re: C18 Keel Raising - Pros/Cons?

Postby Ivana » Fri Jun 10, 2011 7:52 pm

for the heavier keel, I recommend an extra pulley - scroll down p7 of this string;

http://www.careel.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=1167&start=90

John h
Old Fart
Posts: 132
Joined: Sun May 22, 2011 6:44 pm
Location: Canberra region

Re: C18 Keel Raising - Pros/Cons?

Postby John h » Sun Jun 12, 2011 2:25 pm

I found out what the lever is on the side of the keel case. I'm assuming this is a non standard set-up?
Attachments
Compass Careel 18 keel  winch.jpg.jpg
Compass Careel 18 keel winch.jpg.jpg (1.76 MiB) Viewed 1881 times
Lil Annie C18 #438

fritzelhund
Old Fart
Posts: 624
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 9:02 pm
Location: brisbane

Re: C18 Keel Raising - Pros/Cons?

Postby fritzelhund » Sun Jun 12, 2011 3:29 pm

Decidedly non standard ( not that there's anything wrong with that ) It looks like a beautifully overbuilt piece of backyard engineering ( and may well be none the worse for that either )..It is fitted to the port side of the centreboard case and all the rope and cable versions I have seen are swung on the starboard side..and there may be no real reason for that either...I am amused by the bicycle crank and cotter pin arrangement and that is what makes me thing it is home made. It may well work superbly..Many owners have made modifications based on experience or what may be a better idea..you will also note in the pic the electric bilge pump.and the way it empties into the centreboard slot....somebody has thought that through and placed the elbow fitting in a well obscured place up behind the winch...you will also be able to see the wooden "ledge" along the side of the case too to support the infill for a wider mattress. C18 bunks are not generous...so another example of human ingenuity or someone's annoyance being the mother of invention.
It looks like the lifting strop is newish too by the brightness of it.
What a pity the crank looks permanently attached...if you could get it out of the way there would be more footroom and maybe the bolted cotter pin is easily removed and just sitting there...
Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem....

John h
Old Fart
Posts: 132
Joined: Sun May 22, 2011 6:44 pm
Location: Canberra region

Re: C18 Keel Raising - Pros/Cons?

Postby John h » Mon Jun 13, 2011 3:33 pm

Is this one a standard MKII winch? This is on #423 that I'm currently looking at.

BTW, What is the rope going through the jam cleats beside the winch?
Attachments
DSC04570.jpg
DSC04570.jpg (143.49 KiB) Viewed 1858 times
Lil Annie C18 #438

User avatar
byrdsworth
Old Fart
Posts: 796
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 7:31 pm
Location: Brisbane Qld

Re: C18 Keel Raising - Pros/Cons?

Postby byrdsworth » Mon Jun 13, 2011 4:42 pm

Hi John

Don't know about the winch

but the rope would be a lock down for the keel

Cheers
Byrds
C18 #457 "Skye Mist"

User avatar
maxm
Old Fart
Posts: 3798
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2004 7:48 am

Re: C18 Keel Raising - Pros/Cons?

Postby maxm » Mon Jun 13, 2011 6:00 pm

fritzelhund wrote:I am amused by the bicycle crank and cotter pin arrangement and that is what makes me thing it is home made. It may well work superbly..Many owners have made modifications

If only the shaft went all the way through the centreboard case. They could have another crank and pedal and be able to wind the keel up by pedalling like a bicycle. Now THAT would be cool! 8)

fritzelhund wrote:you will also note in the pic the electric bilge pump.and the way it empties into the centreboard slot....somebody has thought that through and placed the elbow fitting in a well obscured place up behind the winch...

That doesn't look like such a great idea to me. If the boat were on it's side then emptying the bilge water into the keelcase could just have the water pouring back into the boat. Minor point, I know but I think it'd be better to get a longer hose and empty the bilge water through the transom.

John - yes that last shot looks like the usual Mk II keel winch. That's about where they usually live.
Max
C22/54 "Katrina II"
Mitsubishi PC Challenger auto

"It could easily be accomplished viz a coppuder"
(Dr Strangelove)

fritzelhund
Old Fart
Posts: 624
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 9:02 pm
Location: brisbane

Re: C18 Keel Raising - Pros/Cons?

Postby fritzelhund » Mon Jun 13, 2011 7:11 pm

I believe Byrds is on the money there....wire cable to lift the plate and a rope to stop it pivoting back into the case if upset...

The lifting cable of a C18 pulls from the front edge of the plate, so it has a lot of leverage to overcome..as the pivot pin is also at the front of the plate, only the pivot is at about the water line...and has a plate about the length of a man's leg swinging off it....the pulling up strop is just under the table top.
Some designs lift a swing keel using a strop that is at the trailing edge of the plate and while that gives a nice run it means that cable replacement for maintainance or following a failure is more awkward as the boat has to either removed from the trailer or "organised" so that the plate can swing down far enough under the boat enough to allow access.
Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem....

Kevt
Petty Officer
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2011 5:58 pm

Re: C18 Keel Raising - Pros/Cons?

Postby Kevt » Fri Dec 30, 2011 9:01 pm

John h wrote:Any Ideas on what the lever does at the bottom centre of the picture? This is a MkII.


Hi All,
Great website and this is my first post. I know the reply is on a 6 month old topic but I came across this photo with a query of the lever at the winch. It is simply a winch lock so the keel can be locked in any position from all the way up to down. I guess this is not normal?
The reason for my reply anyway is because this is now my boat (No416) after purchasing her back in November. The boat is in very good condition however I did spend the first few weeks stripping the interior to paint and re varnish, polish the outside and replaced the windows with tinted acrylic. Coincidently I have just taken her for the first sail today and will be spending a few more days on the water before the end of the Xmas holidays. So far so good and I will be preparing to send more posts with many questions. I am not new to sailing but this is the smallest boat I have owned after downsizing from a Macgregor 26S. I went over to Victoria to purchase her and am sailing in the Northern Adelaide metropolitan coastal waters area.
Although a mate of mine has a C22 there doesn't seem to be too many other Careel owners over this way by the looks of it.
Cheers
Kevin
C18/416

jamesw
Nationals Trophies 4 Sale - Bulk Deals
Posts: 3341
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2004 10:16 am
Location: NSW again, and still boatless

Re: C18 Keel Raising - Pros/Cons?

Postby jamesw » Sat Dec 31, 2011 5:50 am

Welcome Kev, hope you enjoy your Careel. The Mk2 should be good for coastal sailing too with its heavier keel plus be easy to move around.

James
Katrina C18/200

Drifter
Captain
Posts: 65
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2015 9:25 am

Re: C18 Keel Raising - Pros/Cons?

Postby Drifter » Wed Jun 14, 2017 9:08 pm

Hi Everyone,

Sorry to drag up such an old thread. Since my careel has been on solitary on the trailer as I have been replacing cars I have been contemplating improvements on my careel. It is a mark 1 however not sure if the thin or thick centreboard as I have not had the table top off before. I have found it difficult to raise the centreboard at times, maybe I am not macho enough but it does seem to be quite a heave to get it going. I was considering if a trailer style winch attached to the block and tackle arrangement or even just installing a worm drive winch would be best? I also need to re route the lock down rope out through the back of the keel case to the cockpit floor as others have done. If I go with the worm drive winch, does it take forever to lift the centreboard? I only go cruising so don't need to worry about racing etc. I have also wondered if it is better to have the lift cable attached to the bottom aft end of the board and lead to the aft end of the keel case first to create more mechanical advantage? Please let me know your thoughts. I know that sometime I should have look at the pivot pin however the case appears and sounds very firm around the pin and I didn't want to open that pandora's box just yet as I have a long list of things to tidy up on the boat but the centreboard raising is a real issue. Many thanks for your advice.

Cheers,
Drifter
C18 137

User avatar
maxm
Old Fart
Posts: 3798
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2004 7:48 am

Re: C18 Keel Raising - Pros/Cons?

Postby maxm » Wed Jun 14, 2017 9:53 pm

Hi Drifter. I think it's great you resurrected an old thread so no need to apologise!

Your boat #137 would originally have been the thinner, lighter keel plate but that's not to say it hasn't been updated somewhere along the way. The easiest way to find out isn't to take the table off, it's simply to squirm under the trailer and measure the bottom (or front) edge of the keel plate. If it is about 13 mm then you have the old half inch plate. If it is more like 20 mm then you have the heavier three quarter inch plate. I can't help much with different winch options but I do remember that my C18 (heavier 3/4" keel) was a bit heavy to get going with the block and tackle arrangement so either we had the same gear problems or else we're both not macho enough. :D

I'm pretty sure that attaching a line to the bottom of the keel to raise it will present some real problems because of the geometry.

If you have the block and tackle arrangement and you find it a bit too heavy to lift then why not think about just adding another block to reduce the ratios? It'll take longer to lift the keel, but what the heck! :shock:
Max
C22/54 "Katrina II"
Mitsubishi PC Challenger auto

"It could easily be accomplished viz a coppuder"
(Dr Strangelove)

Drifter
Captain
Posts: 65
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2015 9:25 am

Re: C18 Keel Raising - Pros/Cons?

Postby Drifter » Sun Jun 18, 2017 7:49 pm

Hi everyone,

Thanks for your advice. I took the plunge on the weekend and lifted the table off. The lock down rope was twisted and was jamming between the centreboard and keel case as well as the bad arrangement with a shackle and large knot of the lock down rope preventing the lock down rope from entering the keel case, rendering the lock down rope useless! Rather scary to consider that the centreboard was just hanging there with no lock down working! I have added blocks to the uphaul line, have new rope for the uphaul as well as redoing the lock down rope with new rope so it will function and hopefully won't jam now with new rope. On the positive side the centreboard (thin 12mm) is in great condition with slight rust at the top which I have treated with rust converter and will cold gal tomorrow then time to put the table top on with new screws and hope it has all been worth sorting out! Thanks for your advice Max.

Cheers,
Drifter
C18/137


Return to “General Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests