Electrical wiring

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Rod Watts
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Electrical wiring

Postby Rod Watts » Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:38 pm

Good moaning all,
I am in the process of modifying Gumnut after stealing her off Frank late last year. So far I've managed to build a small galley that has gone in on the port side together with a decent sized fold out table based on the top of the keel case. I've tried to think things through so that I still have good access to the keel case and the associated lifting wire and hold down rope. Frank thinks I should post some "before and afters" however my carpentry skills are slightly worse than my ability to calculate tacking angles, so I'm not sure, perhaps when thing are finished.
I have now come to the gruesome bit, electrics. My intention is to install a small battery (12v 20amp) with a 15 watt solar panel to run nav lights, two internal lights (one red), a 5 watt 27 Mhz radio and a CD player. My thoughts are to have the two way radio wired direct (via a 10 amp fuse) to the battery with all other users via a small switch panel (as shown in Bias catalogue). I also intend using a SS solar garden light as an anchor light. With this arrangement we (only wife and me) intend to get away for 4 or 5 day trips.
Could anyone advise if there has ever been a simple wiring diagram done for something similar, I hate reinventing the wheel though couldn't find anything in the Careel bible.
Many thanks,
Rod
C18 / 221 Gumnut
Damn the torpedoes

fredoz
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Re: Electrical wiring

Postby fredoz » Mon Jan 21, 2008 4:55 pm

Rod Watts wrote:Good moaning all,
. I also intend using a SS solar garden light as an anchor light. With this arrangement we (only wife and me) intend to get away for 4 or 5 day trips.

Rod


Rod, if you have a 'The Warehouse' in WA they have a nice pair of Stainless Steel Solar Candle Lights for $16.99.
I bought 2 pair to do something similar, and play around with a mast head and maybe navigation lights if the lenses can be coloured. The lights tend to be a blue rather than white light as described on the box and they throw light down the clear cover to a reflector at the bottom and give the impression of 2 lights in the one cover.
Pat
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dave
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Wiring a C18

Postby dave » Tue Jan 22, 2008 10:00 pm

Gday Rod,
My name is Dave and my boat is C18/192. I call it DOGSBODY but that is a story for later.
Regarding wiring your boat, I have just completed a total refurb of my boat including a full rewire of all electrics.
I'm not sure where you are located but if you are within a zillion miles why don't you come and have a look at DB.
I can draw a diagram for you and post it if you like Please let me know where you are and or your address and I will be 100 % happy to help you out.
I'd offer a few suggestions before you start.
Whenever anybody complains about appliances not working it is almost always because of poor wiring and connections. It is rarely, if ever the appliances fault.
Make sure you use 4mm twin core tinned wire available from BIAS Cat No 0583 $2.60 a metre or 25% off for a 50 metre roll. You'll use about 30 metres for the job anyway.
Use 6mm twin core tinned from your battery to your panel and common negative. BIAS cat No 0584 ....mmmm about $5.60 a metre from memory. I'm not a nerd.....I work for BIAS and I punch these numbers into a computer multiple times every day!!!!!
I would strongly suggest that you use BEP switch panels because they are a better quality product than the chinese copies and not much more expensive anyway.
Please be aware that a solar light will probably not cut the mustard as an anchor light. The cost of an allround light is minimal and can be wired into the system very easily.
Another suggestion is that a 20 amp battery in my opinion is a bit light on particularly if you want to stay on board for any length of time.
I think to be safe you ought to think about 80 amp hours or more because this will give you a heap of battery power. Lights and stereos don't suck a lot of juice for an hour or two but it's probably good to consider that you may run a stereo almost all the time you are awake on the boat and your lights all night. Over a three or 4 day trip, a 20 amp battery probably won't cope.
As to the type of battery ideally an AGM Absorbed Glass Mat battery is the go because they do not discharge while they are idle like a lead acid battery does. They are fully sealed and can be mounted in any position upside down, inside out back the front etc etc.
The downside of an AGM is the cost, being a fair bit more than a conventional lead acid job. Overall I think they are better value for money because the useful life of an AGM is far better than a lead acid.
I understand what it is like to have to compromise cause I aint got the bucks so just buy the best you can but try to weigh up the pros and cons before you spend your hard earned.
If you are local I'm at the Carlton BIAS store so perhaps you can drop in for a coffe and a chat and I can show you what I did with DB.
I'm no engineer BUT >>>>>a good mate of mine is a Japanese fella who is an electrical and electronics GENIUS. He looked at my system Before I put it all together and gave it the thumbs up .....Based on his abilities thats good enough for me.
Finally I pre cut everything to length and put the whole system together on the loungeroom floor first, so I knew exactly where everything had to go.
I'mhappy to chat with you or help with your installation if you need it.
Just let me know.
Cheers
Dave DOGSBODY

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Leerac
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Postby Leerac » Wed Jan 23, 2008 5:41 am

Dave said : ( consider that you may run a stereo almost all the time you are awake on the boat and your lights all night. )

Crikey Dave, remind me not to anchor near you at night , sounds like a stink boat to me or a floating disco! :party:

Silence is golden . Aaaaaah must be getting old ! :wink:

With LED lights we have stayed up the Sandy Straits for 5 days with a 17 Amp hour Jump Starter for power and plenty of amps left.
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Postby jamesw » Wed Jan 23, 2008 7:52 am

also check out ebay, from time to time they have ex-uninterruptably power supply batteries. I bought one just recently - its agm 20amps from memory /6kgs and cost $25. Didn't have a problem with cartage because he was in Newtown, just up the road from #1 son.

I also have an AGM 7amp and I'm not sure but over the 7 hours of the HCW one lap race it may have fallen below the ability to run the 27meg radio.

J
Katrina C18/200

Rod Watts
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electrical wiring

Postby Rod Watts » Wed Jan 23, 2008 6:55 pm

Dave,
Many thanks for the offer to catch up and look at Dogsbody, I wish I could, unfortunately Perth is a bit far from you even in a Careel.
I have an 18 amp AGM battery that I bought from Bias about a year ago and have found it fine to operate bits and pieces on my old timber fishing boat (The Passing Wind), so I'll try and stick with that. I will also consult my trusty Bias catalogue for the items that you have mentioned, I probably know enough about electrics to get into all sorts of strife though I had intended using quite heavy wire throughout, reduced voltage drop and all that.
If you get time to do a wiring sketch I would certainly be a grateful recipient. My adress is 1045 Jarrah Road in Mundaring WA 6073. Actually it sounds like the sort of advice that would be welcomed by many others in our group.
All the best,
Rod
C18 / 221 Gumnut

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Postby john » Wed Jan 23, 2008 7:34 pm

Rod To maybe give you some ideas and something to think about . I haven't touched my boat since early last year for various reasons,
so I'm a bit hazy, but about the last job I did on the boat was a complete rewire, ( well I only finished about 80 % of it - I've got to back to it ) and at the time I drew up wiring diagrams to help me as I did it.
In a nutshell I moved the battery to alongside the porta potti ( made space and a platform to fit 2 batteries ) . I ran cable from the output charger ( fused ) on the outboard all the way down to the battery at the porta potti and then back ( via an isolation switch ) back to the cabin doorway and then fitted a 3 switched fused panel on either side of the doorway to give separate switching for six things - for internal cabin lights , marine radio , anchor light , running lights , and a radio/cd player . I also had ideas ( to give lighting in the cockpit under the boom tent) of making a flexible cable fitted with small led lights ( sort of like xmas decorations only white lights ) to hang under the boom at night at anchor - to this end I fitted a jack plug outlet to the switch panels so it can be plugged in . I also have wiring taken off the switch panels to power permanently wired-in led lights into the cockpit floor walls ( saw that on another Careel ). I'll hunt around and see if I can find my scrawled wiring diagram and also post pictures of it all to give you some ideas , but I won't be able to do it until next week .
Dave I didn't know we had a local Careeeler in the business . I normally go to Whatsitworth at Caringbah . I've got to get stuck in to the boat and finish a few things .If it's ok I'll come down and see you for some advice one day.
Cheers John
jjnsus

dave
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Postby dave » Wed Jan 23, 2008 10:04 pm

Gday Rod ...again....
I'll try and put together the best diagram I can and get it sent off to you shortly. I'll also print some pics to help illustrate what I've done.
In response to the comment that my boat is a floating disco??????
I agree totally that silence is golden....good call. I usually have some music on but it can only be heard on my boat and often if I'm sailing there is no music at all. I've found on my previous boat PLEASE TAKE VERY CAREFUL NOTE !!!!!
If I stay overnight I need to have at least an all round white light on all night. This is to hopefully prevent some idiot from driving a stink boat at full speed into my boat.
If you can drive a boat into a Capt Cook Br. Pylon I reckon I'm a bit of a sitting duck also.
It depends where you stay the night and with the keel up it is pretty easy to stay on the beach. This wasn't possible in my old boat.
I'd hate anybody to compare me or my boat to a stink boat.....shock horror???
My obsevations of being on the water are that you have to be safe not only for yourself but for the large number of ill educated, poor mannered inconsiderate types that seem to frequent our waterways in bigger boats than ours.
I think we tend to run a lot more electrical gear than we think we do and thats why I reckon a bigger rather than smaller battery is better if possible. I can vouch for the fact that fitting in a 100 AMP AGM is a bit of a hassle. But on the upside if I ever make it to a cruise and anybody has a battery problem they will be welcome to run a lead to my boat and suckk some of the juice out of my big bertha!!!! I probably wouldn't have gone that big except that my boss had a spare battery on his boat which he gave me. I love my boss!!!!
Cheers
Dave DOGSBODY

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pugwash
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Postby pugwash » Wed Jan 23, 2008 10:56 pm

Rod, I thought I lived a bit far from the river (I live in Lesmurdie) You must be even further than me. Its great living in the hills and I wouldn't swap it but it can get a bit tedious dragging the boat back up welshpool hill! Good luck with the wiring.
Clive.

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Postby Leerac » Thu Jan 24, 2008 7:06 am

Read my lips Dave LEDS all round = milliamps, low drain on battery, hand held VHF radio. Thats it :P Get rid of your TV , Video player, cdplayer , hairdryer, its a yacht ya know. :lol:
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Postby stunmug » Thu Jan 24, 2008 4:11 pm

Do not take any notice of them DB, stick all the gear you want on your boat, a couple of air horns would be nice, maybe a siren to wake the slack buggers up in the morning after excessive imbibing the previous evening.
I have a good 5KVA gen set for sale, stick it low in the boat, its a bit on the heavy side, give you all the power you need.
A microwave would be handy ,they are good for warming up cold fish and chips from the night before, dont make a bad breakfast with some chilli sauce to tart them up a bit.
You dont want to go overboard so to speak but a small deep freeze is worth its weight in gold when out for the day.
No Dave, ignore the nay sayers, actually the gen set is a bit noisy but you could tow it behind you in the dinghy, a plug in the transom for the power cable would be the message, get into the project, fit the boat out in a proper manner, Bias has heaps of gear that would be just the message for a C18.
The troops are are just envious, if the peasants are happy with a storm lantern and bawdy ditties all lubricated by some of Queenslands finest let it be so, there is no need for one to sink to such basic levels of comfort and entertainment. Someone to display a wee bit of refinement to this motley crew would have to be a good thing.
A couple of LEDS indeed, do you mind.
Frank
Last edited by stunmug on Sat Jan 26, 2008 6:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
Lets do a three sixty and get out of here.

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Leerac
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Postby Leerac » Thu Jan 24, 2008 7:34 pm

Frank :roll: my sentiments exactly ! :wink:
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Rod Watts
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Electrical wiring

Postby Rod Watts » Thu Jan 24, 2008 7:55 pm

Dave and John,
Many thanks for the input I would appreciate any help I can get on this.
I had intended putting the battery down the back in the forward part of the port cockpit locker (I'm making up a small separate battery box for it). Seems to me that it is easier to get there for recharging and the wiring to the two way and circuit board (inside and to port) would be shorter runs, I suppose against this is putting a bit more weight in the stern where you don't want it. One of my early mentors always said it was better to push water than to pull it.
I had no idea a question on the forum would stir the pot so much, just shows we are all individuals, wouldn't have it any other way.
Take care
Rod
C18 / 221 Gumnut

Damn the torpedoes

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pugwash
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Postby pugwash » Thu Jan 24, 2008 8:59 pm

Rod, you have no idea what you can stir up with this lot!
At least they are staying on the topic.
For God's sake don't mention ducks.

Sorry can't help with the wiring.
I haven't got any.
No batteries. No lights. No radio. No CD player.
"Slipjig" isn't rigged for cruising or racing.

Just sailing. :D
Clive.



c18/89 "Slipjig"

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I can't find my camouflage net....

stunmug
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Postby stunmug » Sat Jan 26, 2008 7:09 am

DB,
A slight confession. I am currently fitting out a rather nice caravan for our northern winter sojourn, some scaley mates to catch up with.
It will have a lot of the gear mentioned in my previous post.
We use caravan parks infrequently, preferring to camp out.
One thing I must have when out bush at night is light, bugger that stumbling around in the dark.
A microwave is nice, a small deep freeze does not go astray and music, you need sufficient watts to blow them noisy bloody birds outta the trees first thing in the morning whilst coming to grips with the left over effects of Queenslands finest.
The type of music is not critical, I have found over the years what I like, my neighbors like or it appears to be that way as when I have the volume wound up they stand outside facing us and appear to be mouthing the words of the songs, they are not too bright as they get the words wrong quite a bit, their versions appears to have a lot of words beginning with F.
Yeah, I do take a gen set with me, but it is a very quiet one, cannot stand the noise of gen sets.
Take it easy.
Frank
Last edited by stunmug on Sat Jan 26, 2008 7:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Lets do a three sixty and get out of here.


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