Simply Red Progress (vital C22 keel repair information)

fredoz
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Simply Red Progress (vital C22 keel repair information)

Postby fredoz » Mon Jan 21, 2008 3:25 pm

Hi all, I have posted some pics on 'Picasa'
The pictures speak for themselves, kinda!!
Can anyone recommend a good sandblaster on the Sunshine Coast.
http://picasaweb.google.com/fredoz04/Careel2202
Comments and suggestions welcomed.
Pat
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jamesw
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Postby jamesw » Mon Jan 21, 2008 7:43 pm

1. Fred well done - you've got a good boat there, some work to do.

2. Look up POR 15 - I think it's the answer, once you've got that huge lump of iron sandblasted. Look it up on the net, seems to be just the job. I havn't used POR (have a can though) but Swerve uses it.

3. I'd suggest that you blast the lump then POR it then use epoxy or poly filler to fill the gaps. I don't think you need to fibreglass it though - I have a feeling that that is more work further down the track (when rust starts to bleed through the nice white cladding!).

4. The horn can be replaced, there are drawings around that people have had stainless versions made. Sheavsey knows I think.

There were posts on Trailer Sailer Place about the level of sandblasting recommended, apparently there is a marine standard. Based on the claims I think that POR should stop further rusting and give you a solid base (literally) to work from. I don't think it would be hard to fill the gaps (epoxy and microballoons was what I was going to use).

The trailer looks in pretty good shape.

The boat seems ok - check out what I've managed to do with Penetrol on my boat - but Polyglow might be better with the extra UV up there.

With the expansion that you''ve got from the rust you might have some issues with the casing - worth giving it a good checkout.

As to the rest of it, sails look pretty average - if there's a decent yacht club around look for an Etchells fleet. The E jib fits as is and the E main can be recut to fit (basically cut the bottom third off) - competitive E's go through a complete suit every season so find a competitive sailer and he'll probably have a garage full of old sails and going cheap. Our treasurer was selling jibs for $25 each a while ago.

I'd lose the scaffolding around the boat though (but that's just a personal opinion!). One of the nice things about 22's is sitting up on the side when it heels but the conditions up your way may prevent this.

Just some thoughts from a failed 22 owner - wish I had your engineering - could use a hoist like that!

J
Katrina C18/200

fredoz
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Postby fredoz » Mon Jan 21, 2008 9:11 pm

thanks for that James, I'll look at your latter suggestions when I'm closer to launch time.
I am going to go with 'Rust Bullet' for treatment instead of POR, their website shows better performance. they also have a special finishing paint called 'Black Shell', yes it's black.
I have used an epoxy in the past that was originally intended for jointing cast iron pipes and will give this a go on the keel, maybe use some small hexagon nuts to pack up the epoxy on the deeper pits. the local nut 'n' bolt shop has millions of them, put a bit of weight back. maybe a bit unconventional, but that's me.
The trailer was quite good, but had no brakes, galvanized mechanical discs are now fitted. One tyre on the roller system needed replacing, pretty good really.
I found the details for the builder of the 316 stainless horn on the forum, but wonder if it's worth the expense seeing the current one lasted around 30 years, but then these boats could be around for a lot longer, maybe even see out their 100th birthday.
I was amazed at the strength of the keel box, it was severely punished being the only thing to lever on to get the keel to move on it's downward journey and was not stressed or damaged.
Anyway Tamworth calls, be back next week.
Pat
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maxm
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Postby maxm » Tue Jan 22, 2008 7:26 am

Hi Fred,

Love those needle guns! We use them in the heritage fleet to chip away rust and they work wonders. Second favourite rust-busting attachment is the air powered angle grinder with wire brush.

Keep us posted on your progress.
Max
C22/54 "Katrina II"
Mitsubishi PC Challenger auto

"It could easily be accomplished viz a coppuder"
(Dr Strangelove)

jamesw
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Postby jamesw » Tue Jan 22, 2008 7:47 am

Don't worry about putting weight back Pat, the short cabin C22 has a keel that's about 100kgs more than the later long cabin's. I even thought about getting some big holes drilled in the top to shed a few kg's. Probably better to get some sort of shape going with a decent trailing edge. You're quite right, the horn probably doesn't need s/s, in fact when you introduce other metals you're increasing the risk of electrical stuff going on and causing corrosion. I'll have to check out the rust bullet stuff.

J
Katrina C18/200

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Well done

Postby garyper » Tue Jan 22, 2008 11:14 am

Hi Pat,

I'm in the middle of the same job on my 22 up here in Darwin. Just waiting on getting the keel back from the machine shop as the threads that hold the horn on were a bit dodgy so I'm getting them oversized and putting new bolts in. I got a new horn made in SS and a new pin machined as well as mine was pretty knackered. When I get the keel and pin back I will start work on the casing, the pin holes were oversized and leaking so I will be rebuilding them with glass and epoxy (I've been given some fantastic tips form this forum).

I also pulled a lower shroud u-bolt out and discovered that the wood was pretty bad so I have filled all four with glass and epoxy and replaced with a SS backing plate just to be sure. Probably overkill but it didnt cost much doing it myself.

Other than that I have enough oher little jobs to do to keep me busy until the Dry Season arrives in May :)

Any questions feel free to give me a yell.

Gary

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Leerac
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Postby Leerac » Tue Jan 22, 2008 1:03 pm

Gary I used Sunshine Protective Coatings
at 11-21 Cordwell Rd YANDINA Ph: 54467869 MOB: 0407656869.

Talk to Ben , let him know what you want he may be able to help you, he doesn't like small jobs but he did our C18 plate at a reasonable cost .
Sandblasted and zinc sprayed for $150.

There are some at Kunda Park as well.
(Bundy Bruce)
Quintrex explorer 390 15 hp yamaha stink tinnie

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Leerac
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Postby Leerac » Tue Jan 22, 2008 1:31 pm

Gary ,I opted to use Botecote epoxy mixed with fillet/glueFiller to fill in divots and fair. Botcote is so easy to use and has a good long working time and is 2 to 1 easy to measure dont need all the dispensing crap, just some kitchen scales.

Then I used 3 coats of Epoxy mixed with Graphite Powder for the finish coats.

Supposed to be awfully resistant to scratch and damage and really slippery through the water, but shhhhhh :wink: dont want those NSW blokes to know about this ! Keep it in QLD ! Took Bundy out sunday 1st time ,it flew ! PM me if you would like more info on where to get the products.
Image
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Quintrex explorer 390 15 hp yamaha stink tinnie

fredoz
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Postby fredoz » Fri Feb 01, 2008 8:55 pm

Back From Tamworth, had a 'yeeha' good time, not really into 'country', but enjoy the atmosphere.
Thanks for the comments and suggestions.
I've gone a bit unconventional with the final rust removal, after much research and talking to 'old timers' "hey thats me" the keel is now immersed in a bath of molasses and water 10-1, will be there for the next 2 weeks. I just laid it on the garage floor on a double layer of builders plastic and some telecom rope for underside clearance, gathered it up and secured the ends with tape and vice grips. Took around 50 litres of it to cover the keel adequately.
Now in 2 weeks time we will have the basis for a 'special reserve' brew of C C Keel Rum. All orders considered!!
Pat
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Postby stunmug » Sat Feb 02, 2008 9:37 am

del
Last edited by stunmug on Sun Feb 03, 2008 8:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
Lets do a three sixty and get out of here.

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Edwin Flynn
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Postby Edwin Flynn » Sun Feb 03, 2008 8:34 am

Fred,

After looking at my keel last time Wanton was in the water, I decided that I will do this job this year before the keel gets rusty. I only have a couple to fist sized patches of the paint? gel coat? missing, but if I let it go the rest will peel away. This is due to the amazing speed that I sail at of course. :P

I cannot work out how to take the top off the keel box as I cannot see any screws. Do you have a picture of the top of the keel box or perhaps let me know if it is glued on or how you got it off please?

Ed
Wanton
C22/110
Last edited by Edwin Flynn on Sun Feb 03, 2008 6:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Wanton C22/110
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maxm
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Postby maxm » Sun Feb 03, 2008 9:52 am

Ed,

I've taken mine off a couple of times now and there seems to be a hard way and an easy way.

The easy way is to look under the very bottom edge of the timber. If yours is fabricated like mine then you will find just 4 screws going vertically up into the timber above them. Undo those and the whole table arrangement will lift off easily, leaving just a timber batten either side glued and screwed into the keelcase to which the table was attached.

The hard way is to try to undo those battens.
Max
C22/54 "Katrina II"
Mitsubishi PC Challenger auto

"It could easily be accomplished viz a coppuder"
(Dr Strangelove)

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Edwin Flynn
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Postby Edwin Flynn » Sun Feb 03, 2008 6:03 pm

Thanks Max,

I had a look at ti this morning, ashamed to say it was the first time I looked from below rather than the top. I saw the screws that you mentioned.

So as I understand you, once the table arrangement comes off the keel will become exposed from the top and we can then disconnect the hydrolics before taking the keel pin out to drop it out.
Ie. I will not have to take off the glued timber battens.

Thanks
Ed
Wanton C22/110
Wanton C22/110
All I wanna do is sail!!
The following is my club's web site which I authored. I hope you enjoy it as much as I enjoyed building it.
http://www.baysidetrailableyachtclub.com

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maxm
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Postby maxm » Sun Feb 03, 2008 8:03 pm

Yep, correct. With the table removed you will have full access to the hydraulic ram and should be able to get to the horn where the ram joins onto the keel without much trouble. You won't be able to see much of the keel itself as there is another fibreglass shelf below the ram, between it and the keel. But the pin is just a matter of digging into the case near the floor so not being able to access the keel isn't an issue. Although it does mean that there's absolutely no possibility of pulling the keel up through the cabin... the boat has to be lifted off the keel once it's free.
Max
C22/54 "Katrina II"
Mitsubishi PC Challenger auto

"It could easily be accomplished viz a coppuder"
(Dr Strangelove)

fredoz
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Postby fredoz » Thu Feb 28, 2008 8:52 am

Hi Guys.
More pics posted on Picasa.
http://picasaweb.google.com.au/fredoz04/KeelC22

Final location of keel and placing of pivot pin and hydraulic ram pending, should be over the next few days.
Pat
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